Pyschics that claim the future can change....

[Bark angel]

Zee,
This viewpoint of yours might work in the case of a positive predicted outcome.  s you say, the reader "reads" your hopes and dreams and projects them into the future for you.  But how does that work for a negative predicted outcome?  The reason I ask is because I received a reading this year that forecast something happening that I certainly did not wish to have happen....s o those were not my thoughts that she read.

I don't believe we do things to mess up an outcome. Just because it doesn't happen as we'd like, doesn't mean it was messed up. I've looked back on things that didn't happen the way I wanted, but later was grateful that they didn't.  My believe is that everything is as it should be.  There is no right/wrong to a decision, just not making any decision is what causes detriment.

The original outcome predicted does not necessarily mean it was for your highest good; the reader is only telling you what path you are on (which you ultimately decide to change or keep) and they also just regurgitate what you want to happen. This is what I've come to believe the reader sees. Because we want it to happen a certain way does not mean it's the truth and when the reader supposedly predicts what we wanted, we then say the reader was wrong when it doesn't happen. It's probably why many readers are wrong - wouldn't you say?

Getting readings does shift your mode of thinking: for one it makes you think of things you may not have considered before and it brings scenarios into your conscious that you possibly manifest, as well as it changes your actions that can cause a shift. Everything plays into everything else.

[Bark angel]

Perhaps it is the change in "our thinking"?  At the time the reading was sought, we had a certain outlook "I want XYZ to happen".  As time moves along and we become clearer on what we want, that outcome changes to better fit our outlook at the present time?

That could be true, but another way of looking at it is that the outcome that was formerly predicted is no longer for our highest good.  Perhaps there is a shift in thinking that alters what was once seen as an outcome.

and...if we are detrimental ly affected by hearing information from psychics and "doing things" to mess it up...well, then maybe readings in general are very bad for us to get.

Who is to say what is for our highest good? I dont think something has to be for your higher good for it to be a prediction. ..it just has to be something that will happen.

[Luckystar]

THIS!!!!  I absolutely agree with this post.  I don't even have anything to add! I just wanted to wholehearte dly agree. 

What about the readings where the psychic was completely wrong with the outcome?

And if there's this whole pitch on the future can change, well then no thanks, I'd rather save my money instead of playing Russian roulette with outcomes.

I've just become a realist when it comes to readings. Something has to be said for the hundreds of people who have contributed to this forum and have not received nowhere near the outcomes given.

I feel for those stuck in this cycle.  Please heed the stories of those gone before you (lol, dramatic) and save your money and sanity otherwise you'll be here saying the same thing months later.

I also agree....i think you said it better than i could have.

[Bark angel]

I'm not disagreeing with this advice, but how, then , does one account for the outcomes or predictions that do manifest?  Lucky guess?  Because in some cases it simply could not be a lucky guess.

THIS!!!!  I absolutely agree with this post.  I don't even have anything to add! I just wanted to wholehearte dly agree. 

What about the readings where the psychic was completely wrong with the outcome?

And if there's this whole pitch on the future can change, well then no thanks, I'd rather save my money instead of playing Russian roulette with outcomes.

I've just become a realist when it comes to readings. Something has to be said for the hundreds of people who have contributed to this forum and have not received nowhere near the outcomes given.

I feel for those stuck in this cycle.  Please heed the stories of those gone before you (lol, dramatic) and save your money and sanity otherwise you'll be here saying the same thing months later.

I also agree....i think you said it better than i could have.

[bstalling]

I'm not disagreeing with this advice, but how, then , does one account for the outcomes or predictions that do manifest?  Lucky guess?  Because in some cases it simply could not be a lucky guess.

well..it is possible we changed out thoughts/actions and changed our outcomes. But I think the crux of the problem is that we don't know who to trust when we are looking for the good ones, and even the good ones are inacurate. So its like, why bother at all? Rarely has any psychic told me what to do to keep my thoughts, beliefs, feelings on track to get a particular outcome...m ost are probably not skilled in that. For them to say, "oh, you changed your future" when things don't happen is not very helpful after everything has been said and done.

I think we all agree that psychic ability is real...its just that it is a crapshot when it comes to getting accurate, valid answers about our lives. That is the most frustrating thing about being a psychic client.

[marybell]

What is the difference between destiny and fate? Are both subject to free will? What is free will?
What if a psychic tells me that the guy I met at the gym is the one I am going to marry?  What if she says that he is going to ask me out soon and because I believe in my psychic , I have decided that gym guy and me are already an item so, I stop wasting time and ask him out immediately .  If its destined for us to be together,  does it really matter if I ask him out first.  What if he ends up rejecting me because I moved too soon and made him pull back and instead he  asks out that other gal in the gym? 6  Months later those 2 are engaged.
Was the psychic reading destiny or fate?  Did I change anything by acting on information in  a way I would not have done normally?  Should the psychic have seen this variation caused by my behavior and others?  And if so, why don't they tell us all of them? Or was she wrong in the first place?

[Bark angel]

What is the difference between destiny and fate? Are both subject to free will? What is free will?

Destiny and fate are different.  Fate is predetermin ed, like death for mortal beings.  We are all fated to die.  It makes no difference what roads we take, what choices we make, our fate is ultimately that we die.  It is an unchangeabl e fact.  Whether we live our lives with a purpose, a special purpose, is destiny.  Some of us are destined by the gods to lead lives of excitement, some destined to lives of misery.  But that destiny will assuredly all lead to the same end - death, and that is fate.  If we make a conscious choice in our life and exercise our free will we can change our destiny, we can change the path of our lives, but not our fate. Free will cannot change fate.

[marybell]

What is the difference between destiny and fate? Are both subject to free will? What is free will?

Destiny and fate are different.  Fate is predetermin ed, like death for mortal beings.  We are all fated to die.  It makes no difference what roads we take, what choices we make, our fate is ultimately that we die.  It is an unchangeabl e fact.  Whether we live our lives with a purpose, a special purpose, is destiny.  Some of us are destined by the gods to lead lives of excitement, some destined to lives of misery.  But that destiny will assuredly all lead to the same end - death, and that is fate.  If we make a conscious choice in our life and exercise our free will we can change our destiny, we can change the path of our lives, but not our fate. Free will cannot change fate.

Thanks Bark Angel.  That was surely the best explanation I have heard.  So, where do psychic predictions come in?  When do they tell us our  fate and when destiny?

[Bark angel]

My personal belief is that psychics are attuned to report on what is to occur along our paths. If we continue on the course we are on, they can foresee events unfold. If we exercise our free will and make changes those events may or may not occur as predicted.

Their are various camps that will offer their views as to whether a relationshi p exists between free will, destiny and fate.  Some claim that free will relates to the exercise of our will while in the present, and that fate is the sum total of the effect of past actions that now influence our present life. So, the exercise of free will in the past becomes our fate in the present. In a broader sense, free will and fate are not separate; they are in fact both related to the exercise of free will.

I found this story on the Internet helpful to begin to grasp the concept of free will and how it might affect our destiny or fate.  One night an old man had a dream that a storm would come and wipe away his village, but that God would protect him. As expected, a terrible storm came to his village the next day.

On the first day of the storm, the old man’s brother came and warned the old man to get out of the village straight away. The conditions would grow worse. The old man refused, knowing that God would protect him. On the second day, a neighbor came through. He was fleeing with his family and offered to take the old man with them. The old man denied this help because he was sure that God was going to protect him.
 On the third day, the man took to his roof as the storm waters raged below. A group of villagers came by on a boat and offered to take him to safety. Again, the old man refused knowing that God had promised to protect him.


Soon after, the old man drowned and died. In heaven, he asked God: “Why didn’t you help me as you promised?”

God replied: “I sent your brother, your neighbor, and even a boat; but you declined my help.”

As for psychic readings... I believe they show the current path we are on, and what might occur if we remain on that path.  If we exercise free will and make choices or changes, it must be understood that the events that are predicted could change.  And by choices, I do not mean ordering a vanilla shake instead of a chocolate one, but rather *ignoring* signals, signs, turning off ones' inner voice; choosing not to consult one's inner compass and ignoring moral and ethical direction. As in the story above, the man was so devout in his belief that God would save him that he *ignored* the very acts of God *to save* him, thinking that Gods acts would come in some other form.  He had a preconceive d idea of how God would save him, that he turned away from logical signs of help to wait for those signs that he had in his mind he would receive.  So exercising free will does not always indicate making a choice for the wrong reason.  Sometimes it can be making a choice for the right reason, but not identifying the correct choice.

I believe that psychics can predict both our destiny and our fate.  Our destiny is the course our lives will take if we proceed on the current path.  Of course, exercising free will in the present can change that course in the future.  Psychics can also predict our fate, but if one believes that fate is related to the choices or the free will that we have exercised in the past, then fate is both predictable but unchangeabl e, because the events that occurred in the past that fashion fate are already done. I am not so sure that free will exercised in the present can change fate.
 

What is the difference between destiny and fate? Are both subject to free will? What is free will?

Destiny and fate are different.  Fate is predetermin ed, like death for mortal beings.  We are all fated to die.  It makes no difference what roads we take, what choices we make, our fate is ultimately that we die.  It is an unchangeabl e fact.  Whether we live our lives with a purpose, a special purpose, is destiny.  Some of us are destined by the gods to lead lives of excitement, some destined to lives of misery.  But that destiny will assuredly all lead to the same end - death, and that is fate.  If we make a conscious choice in our life and exercise our free will we can change our destiny, we can change the path of our lives, but not our fate. Free will cannot change fate.

Thanks Bark Angel.  That was surely the best explanation I have heard.  So, where do psychic predictions come in?  When do they tell us our  fate and when destiny?

[Bark angel]

Just wanted to add this to my former comment.  I think the reason I am intrigued by the free will discussion is because I believe it could explain or be the missing link to explain why there are so many psychics that are able to pick up with an amazing level of accuracy those events and details in the past and present, and yet there are so few, at least according to the active members on this forum, that are able to predict with any accuracy events in the future. How can that be?   Some might be inclined to refer to it as an excuse given by psychics as to why they aren't accurate with predictions, but I am not so inclined to believe that it is an excuse.  I believe that if a psychic can pick up details of events that they themselves have not witnessed in the flesh, then why can't they do the same for the future?  Both require that they operate in another dimension - a dimension that mere mortals are not adept in doing. 

There has to be some logical explanation as to why the future is so hard to predict, and yet the present and past do not pose a problem for psychics.  Don't you agree?

Of late, when I read that XYZ psychic failed to predict an accurate outcome for a member, I am inclined to question what change or choice was made by the client that might have affected the outcome as predicted.  I know how very difficult it is to "stay the course".  I am experiencin g it myself.  I am determined to be patien, but with every dawning day my feelings fluctuate and that changes my disposition .  It's for this very reason that I believe we clients might not be so aware of just how this has an impact on what has been foreseen.

Do you not agree?

[marybell]

Just wanted to add this to my former comment.  I think the reason I am intrigued by the free will discussion is because I believe it could explain or be the missing link to explain why there are so many psychics that are able to pick up with an amazing level of accuracy those events and details in the past and present, and yet there are so few, at least according to the active members on this forum, that are able to predict with any accuracy events in the future. How can that be?   Some might be inclined to refer to it as an excuse given by psychics as to why they aren't accurate with predictions, but I am not so inclined to believe that it is an excuse.  I believe that if a psychic can pick up details of events that they themselves have not witnessed in the flesh, then why can't they do the same for the future?  Both require that they operate in another dimension - a dimension that mere mortals are not adept in doing. 

There has to be some logical explanation as to why the future is so hard to predict, and yet the present and past do not pose a problem for psychics.  Don't you agree?

Of late, when I read that XYZ psychic failed to predict an accurate outcome for a member, I am inclined to question what change or choice was made by the client that might have affected the outcome as predicted.  I know how very difficult it is to "stay the course".  I am experiencin g it myself.  I am determined to be patien, but with every dawning day my feelings fluctuate and that changes my disposition .  It's for this very reason that I believe we clients might not be so aware of just how this has an impact on what has been foreseen.

Do you not agree?

Bark Angel , this makes the best sense of anything I have ever read. I too have been baffled by psychics who can read the past and present with such accuracy and yet completely miss the mark with the future.  There have been times  I could feel that I was about to "do it wrong" but I did it anyway because I thought fate is fated.  I now know, thanks to you Bark Angel, why I have developed a strong preference for psychics who tell me there is more than one outcome.   Oh and did you hear about the one where God visits Joey at night and tells him he is about to pass away, and grants him 1 wish before he does.   Joey says he wants to win the next lottery so he can provide for his family.  The lottery comes and goes and Joey didn't win. Joey asks God to explain why not. And God says "Because you didn't buy the ticket"

[Bark angel]

We are always offered choices in life.  No different with a psychic prediction.  I had one psychic who explained it to me this way.  If I were to tell you that you are going to meet a man and marry him in three months, and after that reading you get drunk, go berserk and lose your moral compass and end up shooting someone he is seeing at this time in a parking lot, and end up going to prison for 15 years, would you understand this notion of free will better?  At the time of the reading this going berserk wasn't a notion in your mind..so how could the psychic see it?

This is perhaps a poor example but an example all the same of how choices we make could impact, negatively, a prediction.

When I read people coming here saying oh this psychic predicted something that would happen with me and Mr. A, that did not happen, and I gave this prediction a reasonable amount of time to materialize, therefore, this psychic and all the rest of them are wrong...it makes me wonder just how much did that client's mindset change over time. 

Let's face it, if a prediction is made that is in the near future, it is conceivable that not much could come into the picture, in terms of new energy or a change in mindset to alter the outcome.  That's why I think we have all received news of contact coming in a short period of time, and it has and we say "eureka! The psychic was accurate" .  However, when things are going to take longer to materialize; when predicted outcomes are in the distant future then there are so many more opportuniti es for us, as mortal and fallible beings to change something that is related to that outcome.

I can cite my own situation as an example.  I am facing at best several months before anything significant is predicted to occur in my case.  That is several months after a long term period of little to no positive activity.  Now, at the beginning of that period, I was hopeful and thought I had a fighting chance.  My heart was warm; I was open-minded; I was sentimental .  Over the ensuing months, I have caught myself vacillating from periods of sadness to touches of frustration s, to points where I begin to think I am angry.  If I were to react to those emotions and use them as a basis for a decision or choice, I could very conceivably alter the outcome of my situation - which is why I like reading with readers that caution me to "remove my emotions from the situation".  Those readers, I believe, know that a rash, uncontrolle d reaction could set off a domino effect that could change everything they have seen that is in the pipeline to unfold.

It is for this reason that when I read these accountings of readings and outcomes from members here, that I begin to wonder..."Ok, after that reading...d id YOU change something?  Did you REACT, did your mindset, your willingness, your openness change?  Did a soft hearty harden over time?  Did a door that was open in your world close because you became impatient, or angered?  All of these reactions are reasonable, but all might have an impact on the future.

Just wanted to add this to my former comment.  I think the reason I am intrigued by the free will discussion is because I believe it could explain or be the missing link to explain why there are so many psychics that are able to pick up with an amazing level of accuracy those events and details in the past and present, and yet there are so few, at least according to the active members on this forum, that are able to predict with any accuracy events in the future. How can that be?   Some might be inclined to refer to it as an excuse given by psychics as to why they aren't accurate with predictions, but I am not so inclined to believe that it is an excuse.  I believe that if a psychic can pick up details of events that they themselves have not witnessed in the flesh, then why can't they do the same for the future?  Both require that they operate in another dimension - a dimension that mere mortals are not adept in doing. 

There has to be some logical explanation as to why the future is so hard to predict, and yet the present and past do not pose a problem for psychics.  Don't you agree?

Of late, when I read that XYZ psychic failed to predict an accurate outcome for a member, I am inclined to question what change or choice was made by the client that might have affected the outcome as predicted.  I know how very difficult it is to "stay the course".  I am experiencin g it myself.  I am determined to be patien, but with every dawning day my feelings fluctuate and that changes my disposition .  It's for this very reason that I believe we clients might not be so aware of just how this has an impact on what has been foreseen.

Do you not agree?

Bark Angel , this makes the best sense of anything I have ever read. I too have been baffled by psychics who can read the past and present with such accuracy and yet completely miss the mark with the future.  There have been times  I could feel that I was about to "do it wrong" but I did it anyway because I thought fate is fated.  I now know, thanks to you Bark Angel, why I have been intuitively drawn to psychics who tell me that there is more than one outcome. Oh and did you hear about the one where God visits Joey at night and grants him 1 wish, and Joey says he wants to win the next lottery.  The lottery happens and Joey doesn't win. Joey asks God to explain why not. And God says "Because you didn't buy the ticket"

[Zee]

I have had future predictions transpire exactly as the reader told me and in the said time frame as well.  Because they were so spot on, I returned to the same reader, but any other future predictions did not happen at all and I stopped going to them.

My understandi ng of any prediction or any reading for that matter is all about interpretat ion. Period.

Here are two examples from two different readers on Bitwine.  I don't have my notes with me so this is kind of sketchy:

Reading A: The first reader, (female) told me I will meet a guy in my area, who has been watching me, who will approach me at something that I do frequently and she saw him as a younger guy.  I mentioned there is no way in hell anyone in my neighborhoo d interests me in the slightest, but she was confident it would happen in about two/three weeks of the reading.

Reading B: The second reader, (male) told me that I will approach a guy because I would be so drawn to him and it will be at something I do frequently, from someone who has the same interests that I have. I told the reader, nope that won't ever happen because I don't approach men. He strongly assured me that I would approach him due to some magnetic force field (not his words, my impression). For some reason he made it seem as if I would have to work a lot more than normal to snare the guy, but he too was very confident (a tad overly if you ask me) that it would happen.

Reading A just happened about a month ago. Wwway-ayyy off on timing.  A guy two buildings down, on the same side from where I have an apt, spoke to me and we started talking. He gave me a ginormous compliment. It was in the evening, so his features were not that clear. He was sitting on the steps smoking (yuck) where he lives and I was passing him as I was walking my dog, which I do twice a day.  So technically he didn't approach me, but did speak first.  Secondly, he is younger - MENTALLY. So much so I thought he was a little slow when I saw him a couple of days later. I had not even realized I had talked to him before.  I meet him a third time, in the afternoon which was much clearer.  He had tattoos all over his arms. So much so, it gave him a new skin color (yikes) and he works at some mom/pop copy center which means he is broke as hell. I already know I'm broke, so two broke ass people together won't make any kind of love story.  And if this is what the universe brought me, I want to kick the universe’s butt!!

He talked in a clipped way, very short words like he really had to think how to form sentences and knowing communicati on is at the top of my list, I was like what the hey?  I was making most of the conversatio n, which I understand women do, but there was nothing there for me. It would have been more exciting talking to a brick wall. He was such a turn OFF as in never on. He asked for my number and I told him I'd think about it and he said okay. Any other smarter guy would know that meant NO. I just could not lie quick enough to make it even sound legit and to get rid of him.

Why didn’t she see he wasn’t right for me or that just because he felt enamored, doesn’t mean I would feel the same way.  Actually she never said I would be attracted to him or even interested, but to bring this crap up like I would is so misleading, because in the grand scheme of things this was not beneficial. Later this reader was banned from Bitwine shortly after our read. Why? I can't say although I did email her, but she never responded.

Reading B happened about two/three months ago and was just as way off as the first read, regarding time. It might have happened except I can't honestly see myself going after some guy, especially since I thought I might have been going after him only because of what the reader told me.  This guy was so friggin’ smart I didn’t even know what he meant half the time when we interacted. This guy was well off, and we met because we are in the same art class, but he didn't give me any vibes that he was interested (even remotely) and I wasn't sooooo drawn to him as the reader told me I would be, although I would have dated him because he wasn't ugly, but still..... it did not technically happen, as far as I’m concerned. It might not even be the right guy, who knows?

I even mentioned the first Reading, A to this reader (Chris) and he told me the first reader was wrong and that it would happen the way he said it would (like end of story). Weird as it might seem, this reader was banned from Bitwine as well but he responded to me when I contacted him.

I told him he was dead wrong and he was like we could take a look at what happened, but I was like why - the fact the event failed was all I needed to know. He wasn't as good as he thought he was in my opinion. When I emailed him because the time frame was about to expire, I told him I'd come back if he were right, but of course nada.  His reason as to why he was banned was extremely vague, but I know he is looking for another platform to read from. I could easily email him again and see why events did not happen as he predicted, but I don't want him to give me the same stupid 'free will' line that most readers do. I seriously stopped believing that failed predictions have anything to do with me.

If the reader can see the future, then they need to be responsible enough to give me an alternative outcome if they can’t see the event clearly. Like I said, as far as I can tell, they are misinterpre ting what they see.

[bstalling]

I seriously stopped believing that failed predictions have anything to do with me.

If the reader can see the future, then they need to be responsible enough to give me an alternative outcome if they can’t see the event clearly. Like I said, as far as I can tell, they are misinterpre ting what they see.

This is what I ultimately believe. Although I can see how Bark Angels view can happen, I seriously doubt that it happens the majority of the time. I'm never just going to believe that things just change. I don't think life can be that random all of the time. I'm chalking up predictions that don't happen to psychics that didn't interpret the information that they were seeing good enough. Meaning, they are just not skilled enough to be accurate the majority of the time.

[marybell]

Thank you so very much Bark Angel. What you are saying makes a lot of sense and is mind altering to me.  Any books you would recommend, or are you self learned?